IRC Log Viewer » #firebreath » 2012-08-21

IRC Nick Time (GMT-7) Message
JuanDaugherty 09:08 i don't think they've ever done it without user OK, maybe they've crossed that rubicon
taxilian 09:08 yeah, I dunno; I was able to repro this issue on 3 different computers, now I can't… with the same install file
emicastro 12:08 do you know any about ppapi?
taxilian 12:08 emicastro: I've looked into it, but not for awhile; it looked like it might be possible to make a ppapi host for firebreath, but I decided it wasn't worth the work because nothing but chrome supports it
emicastro 12:08 yeah, the same for me...
there are a new thinking way... Browsers makers (or Microsoft) wants to remove plugins from the browsers
taxilian 12:08 actually all browser manufacturers would love to get rid of plugins
emicastro 12:08 on Win8... if you download Chrome lastest version... it install two version of it... the metro and desktop app
taxilian 12:08 at least Chrome and Mozilla do; I haven't heard anything specific from Apple
we might have to come up with some creative solutions for metro; I have some ideas, but I'm not sure if they are feasible or not yet
I haven't had time to tinker with windows 8 yet
I probably should get another computer to put windows 8 on and develop with, but I haven't
emicastro 12:08 I have been programming some stuff on win8... and my plugin is a part of it... and now, I have discovered this kind of stuff....
the metro version of the browsers...
for example
taxilian 12:08 which don't allow plugins
at least, IE doesn't; dunno about Chrome
emicastro 12:08 two o three month ago, only IE had metro version
now, all browser (at least Chrome) have it...
exactly, they don't allow plugins
NPAPI and ActiveX aren't allow
taxilian 12:08 the question is, what type of actual applications can you create to run "metro style" that can be run directly from metro?
reichi 12:08 i wonder how that should ever work out
taxilian 12:08 I mean not web apps, but that we could do with c++ or c#
reichi 12:08 npapi plugins are almost everywhere all accross the web
taxilian 12:08 yeah; it's going to be a problem for us, because our software (which is used by thousands of teachers around the US) requires an NPAPI plugin to function
emicastro 12:08 yeah... I mean on microsft world... they don't like plugins... they want to migrate everything to HTML5
taxilian 12:08 so my thought is that it might be possible to create an application with an embedded browser that basically loads a given web page and makes your plugin available inside it
reichi 12:08 i like the basic idea behind that
(getting rid of npapi)
but i just don't see how that could work
taxilian 12:08 yeah; plugins are a huge security concern
but they are also invaluable
emicastro 12:08 removing private plugins to handle videos (flash player) for example, this is a lie cause they has made an agreement with Adobe to keep Adope plugin working on metro :)
reichi 12:08 there's just too much things you cannot solve without npapi
at least currently
emicastro 12:08 yes
your approuch is good... but this web page must be remotly..
if your app run on metro environment
taxilian 12:08 emicastro: what we do currently for iOS is we us a UIWebView and load our app, then we use hooks so that we can call into the Obj C code and say "put the 'plugin' in this rect"
seems like it might be possible to make a fairly generic shell for firebreath plugins that would do the same thing
the nice thing is you could even limit it to your own website
emicastro 12:08 you cann't loopback from metro apps... you cann't access to localhost from a metro app...
taxilian 12:08 it wouldn't solve all problems, but it would help from some things
emicastro 12:08 yeah that right
taxilian 12:08 interesting
but it seems like that might be the best solution for us, at least; it would probably work well for many others as well
emicastro 12:08 yes, but Metro environment will be a headache for us in a feature... Metro Apps opening external links launching a browsers that allow plugins only on the desktop version... but you cann't tell on which version (metro or desktop) that link must be opened...
taxilian 12:08 yeah
emicastro 12:08 new paradigm may be...
taxilian 12:08 either way it's going to be a bit of a nightmare
emicastro 12:08 i don't know
reichi 12:08 thank god i am on linux only
it seems like THE blessing
taxilian 12:08 hehe. as long as you don't need to release a binary distro… =]
reichi 12:08 well, it's totally under our control
from the drivers to the kernel
up to wha actually lands in the firmware
taxilian 12:08 yeah; in that case you're fine =]
people keep asking me why GradeCam doesn't have a linux version; they dont' understand how few teachers use linux nor how difficult it is to put out a binary distribution of a plugin to work on all flavors of linux
just not cost-effective
reichi 12:08 well
you could extend that to "how many people except developers and admins use linux"
and still what have an ridiculously small number
s/what/would
emicastro 12:08 reichi: customers will decide where the plugin has to run, not you (the developer) :) so.... we have to fight with this kind of things like run behind a beta OS like Win 8 for example
taxilian 12:08 yeah. fortunately for me windows 8 changes the game so drastically that most schools won't adopt it for at least another year, but I'm going to have to start worrying about it soon.
emicastro 12:08 dodging problems that they don't know that exist :)
taxilian 12:08 the really sad thing is how many of our customers are still on IE7
IE8 is sorta understandable because so many are on XP
but IE7?
*sigh*
at least we were able to drop IE6 support
emicastro 12:08 yeah! this is one of the most amazing things on web development too...
office computers that are plugged it to intranets running some intern software....
they still use IE7
:D
taxilian 13:08 heh. many of those still use IE6
reichi 13:08 emicastro: i develop for an embedded platform, so in my case, that decicsion is fully ours ;)
taxilian 13:08 heh. braggart ;-)
reichi 13:08 grudger
:p
emicastro 13:08 you're lucky :)
reichi 13:08 but well, fun aside
i don't know if it's a good decision
to ban npapi from metro browsers
taxilian 13:08 I can understand the reasoning, but it shows a frightening lack of understanding of how things work
reichi 13:08 i could imagine that at least the 3rd party browser may take a step back there
taxilian 13:08 even more frustrating is that they have reportedly made an exception for flash
reichi 13:08 yeah
sure npapi should be gotten rid of
taxilian 13:08 but only if you're providing a viable alternative
reichi 13:08 but before that there has to be some way to offer somehow similar functionlitay
let it be javascript or whatsoever
taxilian 13:08 even javascript wouldn't work for what we need; our image analysis wouldn't be performant enough in javascript, and even if it were so we would definitely *not* want the code that is our "secret sauce" to be easily downloaded by anyone with a halfway decent javascript code formatter
reichi 13:08 that is very true
it's the same for us
taxilian 13:08 but seriously the only thing that makes our stuff viable is an insane amount of compiler optimization that simply wouldn't happen in javascript
reichi 13:08 how stable is the 1.7 branch at the moment?
taxilian 13:08 pretty stable
I'm using it in production
I mainly just haven't taken the time to release it
reichi 13:08 i guess i'll upgrade than
taxilian 13:08 it's ready, AFAIK
reichi 13:08 and merge my changes into the 1.7. branch
(which hopefully doesn't turn into a merging nightmare)
taxilian 13:08 hehe
well, not too much has seriously changed in 1.7; there are some definite fixes you'll want
we're now using PCH on both windows and mac, but I don't know how to use them with makefiles linux-style, so I don't have them on for that platform. FB::variant has been updated
FireBreathBot 14:08 Commit d92c402 on master by Byron Clark: "Move these messages to LogLevel_Trace.
Commit 3636a14 on master by Richard Bateman: "Merge pull request #78 from byronclark/getvalue-less-verbose..."
Binbo 20:08 taxilian: hi, I am really not a good programmer and I really stucked on calling mypluginAPI method from myplugin class as I have asked you last time. Really need an example snippet to understand it =(
taxilian 20:08 sorry, you'll have to refresh my memory on your question
Binbo 20:08 taxilian : I just use default class given. let say my plugin named "myplugin", how to invoke mypluginAPI's method from myplugin class?
taxilian 20:08 FB::ptr_cast<mypluginAPI>(getRootJSAPI())->someMethod()
and I recommend you spend some time studying C++; also learn about boost::shared_ptr
that will help you understand what is going on
Binbo 20:08 definitely, my c++ fundamental is totally garbage since I seldom practice it
taxilian 20:08 FB::ptr_cast is just an alias for boost::dynamic_pointer_cast, FYI
Binbo 20:08 thanks!
working hard to master it =)