IRC Log Viewer » #firebreath » 2010-11-05

IRC Nick Time (GMT-7) Message
iaincollins 05:11 taxilian_away: Regarding this popup that shows up on Upgrade / Uninstall http://iaincollins.com/browser-restart.png ...
apparently it's the Vista Restart Manager, and applications can elect to register with it to be notified to restart by the system (although it's fairly iffy and usually apps just hang or quit rather than restarting gracefully)
It can apparently be turned off by specifying "<Property Id="MSIRESTARTMANAGERCONTROL" Value="Disable" />" in the MSI (this seems to be working, but have some more testing to do today to confirm that)
that will result in the system falling back to some kind of generic file in use dialog / please confirm dialog, but not if the msi is installed with "/passive" and "/qn" flags
although that (unless you are willing to force a browser restart) during upgrades old DLL's should not be removed until later (e.g. maybe marked as "permenant" in MSI then any older DLL's should be removed with a RemoveFiles directive on uninstall of any package).
also found that since making some changes to the build process (version number in the DLL name, making sure the ActiveX ID is updated properly, etc),
that on Windows I can upgrade in place, even with the DLL in use without page reload (e.g. using javascript timer on a page to site look for new versions, triggered by a user clicking the "Upgrade" button) /without/ also changing the mime type, in every browser except Firefox
going to take a look at the XPInstall API to see if that helps (unless anyone has a suggestion)
taxilian 09:11 iaincollins: huh. very interesting
XPInstall API always requires a browser restart
but I have been able to upgrade plugins without restarting the browser or the page just fine on firefox
neilg_ 09:11 I've found that upgrading plugins without restarting Firefox only works if I haven't already visited a page that loaded that plugin
I suspect switching between filenames would help with that but feels hacky
taxilian 09:11 neilg_: you're correct; you must use a different filename
but that's usually a good idea
put the version number in the filename
and put it in a directory with the version number in it
that's the most reliable way to make sure it works correctly
but trust me; I've done lots of upgrades on firefox without restarting the browser
it can be done
however, if you don't have to you probably are less error prone restarting the browser
neilg_ 09:11 It's absolutely not a bad idea at all to have the version in the filename. We do that for pretty much all DLLs here with the exception of the plugin itself... That's probably quite a bad idea really
iaincollins 09:11 neilg_ yeah the same here, if I don't change the type, I can't get it to find the new version if it's already been loaded by Firefox (and yeah am changing the filename too)
taxilian 09:11 how are you registering it?
and did you put it in its own directory?
iaincollins 09:11 taxilian: Thanks for the info about XPInstall API
I'm using the WiX installer atm
taxilian 09:11 it's one of the main reasons I don't use it
the other is that XPInstall only installs for firefox
iaincollins 09:11 I was wondering if there is something else I should be doing wiht the WiX installer, I will maybe explore that instead of XPInstall then
taxilian 09:11 repeating my question; did you put it in its own directory?
iaincollins 09:11 I am letting the existing installer determine the installation directory actually, hadn't occured to me to look at that
taxilian 09:11 firefox 3.6 has a weird issue
the detection of plugin versions works differently than it used to
you need to put the file in a different directory for each version
be back later; gotta run
iaincollins 09:11 oh!
thanks loads, once again!
iaincollins 10:11 I was just in a project meeting with two product / project managers who were my both enthusiastically mis-describing the functionality of my plug-in first to each other and then to someone who already knows what it's for. TGIF
taxilian 10:11 iaincollins: incidently, putting the dll in a version-specific subfolder will also fix a weird issue on Chrome
I don't remember exactly what it was at the moment, however :-P
just that it did
iaincollins 10:11 oh thanks, yes *sometimes* Chrome is being weird with me too
taxilian 10:11 isn't plugin install fun?
iaincollins 10:11 :)
I am almost lothed to bring it up because it's a bit of a distraction
but figured I could mention it, get corrected, then write it up
(and/or at least the logs are searchable)
taxilian 10:11 one of these days I need to write a PHP script to parse the logs into both a mysql database and a solr instance
then I can make them truly searchable
however, the only way I'll get everything done that I need to "one of these days" is if I find 3 or 4 more of me
iaincollins 10:11 going to do as you suggest now though with the install directory
indeed
taxilian 10:11 homework for school is killing me this semester... I have taken 2 tests this week and I have one more
iaincollins 10:11 If you like, I can manage that at the weekend
taxilian 10:11 which? the log parsing?
iaincollins 10:11 yeah, it's an easy thing I could do that might be helpful
taxilian 10:11 that would be awesome
I dont' think it'll be too hard
even just getting it into mysql, I have a friend that knows solr pretty well and he could probably get that running for me
I think searchable IRC logs would be very helpful to people trying to find answers
and for me trying to find what I've told people before =]
iaincollins 10:11 it's a testament to FB (and the documentation) that, even as someone who hasn't uses VC++ before (C# on Windows, and C++ on Unix/Mac being the closest) that I have pertty much no questions about client implimentation :)
taxilian 10:11 have to admit; that is pretty impressive
iaincollins 10:11 I've actually had more trouble doing something simple like getting libcurl linking working in VS :/ (fine now, but took me a day)
taxilian 10:11 in all honesty, most people who have a real problem wtih FireBreath either just give up at the first annoyance with cmake or just don't have much experience with programming real applications (read: not web apps)
I think I might even admit to FireBreath documentation being "pretty good"
though there are some things that obviously should be explained better, judging by the questions we get
iaincollins 10:11 hehe, yes I think it is
yeah I think there could be better documentation around passing around objects, etc
taxilian 10:11 like how to use the prep scripts on a custom project and build dir
that too
that's just a difficult thing to fully explain
iaincollins 10:11 yeah
the examples are super useful though
taxilian 10:11 it's funny to me how many people never look at htem
the people who do seem to understand things just fine
iaincollins 10:11 I would have gone pretty crazy without them I think, wouldn't have known where to start with some things
I am super happy that it's been so easy to structure the code in the way I wanted to
taxilian 10:11 it's always easier to show than tell
iaincollins 10:11 with objects with sub objects and nicely cross platform
taxilian 10:11 that's always been my goal; I don't want to force people to code the way I do
iaincollins 10:11 I expected returning an object with a bunch of objects was going to be a huge pain
except it worked first time and I was "oh, wow"
taxilian 10:11 hehe. I think that's the absolute most solid part of the framework
I'm more of a web guy by background; I wanted the plugins to work the way that I, as a javsacript developer, would expect
and then Georg's JSAPIAuto metaprogramming stuff is nothing short of brilliant
it's the icing on the cake
taxilian 11:11 I begin to remember why FireBreath isn't a library... this activex stuff has so many interdependencies it's ridiculous
iaincollins 11:11 :/ shame
taxilian 12:11 well, over the last year I've come up with some ideas and learned some new things
I'm trying to refactor the ActiveX plugin project to get us closer
the one thing I have definitely determined during htis is that I'm completely out of my mind
but I still think it's doable
iaincollins 12:11 hehe
Probably in the same week Microsoft will announce MSIE X with NPAPI support 8)
taxilian 12:11 lol
I wouldn't complain
iaincollins 12:11 :)
taxilian 12:11 the way things are going I'll have to teach my grandchildren to support IE6
iaincollins 12:11 Depressing! Am sure will will be moaning about MSIE 9 still in 10 years
meeting today, things all confirmed for around December the 1st...
taxilian 12:11 for your release?
iaincollins 12:11 they are doing a mailshot for (~4 million) customers to point them to an xmas landing page that will have the plug-in on it
for "self service" support
yeah *midly nevous*
taxilian 12:11 cool =]
iaincollins 12:11 *nervous
simple functionality at first, probing their router and echoing settings back out
taxilian 12:11 I'll try to make sure I'm around to help you figure out bugs =]
iaincollins 12:11 :)
mostly users need to know things like WiFi details and just forget and don't know how
and if you mention "log on to your router" they just glaze over and call
but if it's a button... then we can fix that
taxilian 12:11 yep
iaincollins 12:11 (and long term, use our existing code from the AOL UK / TalkTalk setup CD's to configure wireless while we are at it if required)
stuff like people being on a busy wifi channel is problem, for example
(people just think it's their internet provider)
taxilian 12:11 well of course it is
you're the ISP; everything is your fault
iaincollins 12:11 true :)
taxilian 12:11 if you don't believe me, just do a google search
iaincollins 12:11 I have to be robust about the security model though (I notice that was on the first page of your paper :)
taxilian 12:11 oh, you read it?
iaincollins 12:11 Going to hard code it to only respond to a specific domain
taxilian 12:11 nah
iaincollins 12:11 (specific subdomain, even)
taxilian 12:11 it's all in 1.4
iaincollins 12:11 not yet
taxilian 12:11 I can give you an example
sure is
iaincollins 12:11 oh cool
taxilian 12:11 pretty easy, actually
iaincollins 12:11 (sorry not read it all yet is what I meant, got it on my iPad)
taxilian 12:11 fair 'nuff
let me know what you think
iaincollins 12:11 will do
figure we don't want it on the main domain only, as some 3rd party CMS or Forum software might not be free of cross domain scripting bugs we don't know about :/
taxilian 12:11 yeah
well, the most secure way to do it would probably be to use the embedded web server method
there'd be a bit more legwork required on that one, though
iaincollins 12:11 oh yes, I was thinking about that actually
taxilian 12:11 still probably doable at this point
iaincollins 12:11 yeah, I kind of like the web team having flexibility about how they impliment it too
on the list is things like result of an arp and then identifying network devices
taxilian 12:11 if you were to create a handler that would use BrowserStreams (not certain what this would require to work well), you wouldn't have to worry about proxy issues and you'd have the security guarantees of a specific location on a secure server
iaincollins 12:11 and letting people see a view of their home network and providing "here's how to setup your X-Box wirelessly" articles (etc) or suggest home networking kit (e.g. powerline stuff)
taxilian 12:11 if you want to try that I can send you some code samples; I'm willing to do that if you'll write up some docs for it =]
iaincollins 12:11 oh
that's interesting
hmmm I like that
I'm going to think that over! :)
taxilian 12:11 I wouldn't mind someone else using the code; more likely to find any issues that way
iaincollins 12:11 If you send it over I can try and find time to give it ago
taxilian 12:11 it'll be a little more complicated than just that, I think; I don't have a 100% working example yet, and I can't send that. more I can tell you the steps to take
iaincollins 12:11 I'll definitely do the IRC logs this weekend
taxilian 12:11 are you on 1.4?
iaincollins 12:11 I see :)
not yet :( I am bad ... I am on 1.2.2 *ducks*
I am migrating next week... I promise
taxilian 12:11 HTTPService is only available on 1.4
I'm still formulating best practices for it
so this isn't a fully baked solution yet
iaincollins 12:11 kk
We want to grow this beyond xmas (with a nice feature map drawn up already) so am very interested, and like the sound of that approach.. will mull it over this weekend
taxilian 12:11 ok
iaincollins 12:11 have a great weekend (to you and everyone else too)
taxilian 12:11 you as well
taxilian 16:11 anttix: I hate ActiveX
just sayin